Welcome to the Gum Disease Blog! We created this running Blog in 2007 to have an open forum for discussing Periogen®, the tartar dissolver, as well as home dental care in general. As more people become enlightened to the magic that is Periogen®, a new era is emerging where people will manage their own oral health, rather than living helplessly every day in dread of some future dental appointment, scheduled or not. Seek the assistance of dental professionals with the confidence that your home care regimen includes dissolving tartar.
There are many questions and answers here. Feel free to post your questions, and one of us will give you the answers.
You are also encouraged to share your dental experiences here.
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Tags: dissolve tartar, gum disease, oral health, Periogen
Thanks for the response. I felt like I had gone over the top with my post. Still, was a concern of mine. Thanks for the information. I will be starting the treatment today and see where I end up in a couple of months from now.
Okay, one other question about the process of using Periogen. The instructions say use a spoonful per application. The bottle is 3oz. The bottle says it good for up to 90 applications.
A spoonful is somewhat inexact. If I used a regular kitchen spoon, I don’t think I’d get 90 spoons of this out of the bottle. I’m thinking of using a teaspoon measure. My converter says there are 18 teaspoons in 3 oz but that’s a fluid ounce, not by weight.
So, to be exact, is a teaspoonful in a cup of warm water the right amount? I’m thinking that a teaspoonful would give me 90 per bottle by dry weight.
Hi Todd,
You are not over-the-top in your comments. Everyone’s dental health is full of anxiety and we should all ask pointed questions from anyone offering solutions. I wish I had asked more questions from my dentist before submitting to horrible gingivectomies (gum removal surgery to reduce periodontal pockets) and other bizarre procedures. At the time, I even experienced a sort of clinical admiration for the periodontist performing these destructive surgeries.
The instructions on the Periogen bottle should indicate that an applicator spoon is enclosed in the bottle of Periogen. A heaping applicator spoon equals one gram of Periogen. This is good for one cup of water. There are a bit more than 45 heaping applicator spoonfuls in a single bottle. If you just swishing, one cup of Periogen is way too much to have to go through, so we recommend a level applicator spoon for ½ cup of water, thus 90 applications. If you are thrifty, you can irrigate your entire mouth on ½ cup of water + Periogen.
There is no problem using a lot of Periogen many times a day. Remember, it is essentially just a harmless water softener. If your mixture begins to actually taste like lemon, then you are probably using more than necessary to dissolve tartar – but there is no harm in this practice. Seasoned Periogen users just tap some into their irrigator reservoirs and irrigate. Others meter Periogen out exactly. Either method has been found to be successful.
Hi Administrator,
I have just received my Periogen starter kit and found the brochure about PerioPeak, Judy Carroll’s Regenarative Periodontal Endoscopy. I strongly believe that Periogen and PerioPeak are complementary to each other. We just need to understand how each of them works. The heart of PerioPeak’s service is to regenarate alveolar bone and periodontal legament with the application of Emdogain which mimics the bilogical process of natural tooth development. So, your answer was very specific and logical. Only little thing to point out that Emdogain is made by Swiss pharmaceutical manufacturer Straumann. Here is their website if anyone is interested about how Emdogain works.
http://www.straumann.us/us-index/products/products-biologics/products-emdogain.htm
Thanks.
– Tareq Morshed
Did we get that “spoonful” thing cleared up? The instructions refer to the spoon inside the bottle, which is one gram heaping, 1/2 gram level.
I have been unable to access a video online about using ions to dissolve tartar (?) supposedly at youtube.com/watch?v=3wXaL-PkLqk
Does anyone know how to get more info on this “… elimination of all calculus formations studied” by chelating “calcium phosphate salt components away from the matrix, thus.. reducing the size of subgingival calculus formations.” Sodium Tripolyphosphate (STPP) and Sodium Fluoride (charge -1) was used.
I have just started using this product. I was thinking about adding a treatment to swish after lunch. It would be more convenient if I could mix a treatment with water in a plastic container and take it with me to work. Will this work? How long will the solution be active after it is initiallly mixed in water?
Hi Dru,
The solution will be active forever, but it will be cold, of course. Make sure you are comfortable using a cold solution.
I am amazed! Just after applying Periogen for the first time I saw the difference this morning!! Last night I applied Periogen solution with Waterpik. I had one tooth that I could feel the tartar under the gum line with the tip of my tongue, this morning when I woke up I found most of the tartar that I could feel is gone and two other teeth where I saw tartar became thinner, just from the first application. The periodontist I visited last week told me I will need to get those two teeth extracted. I didn’t want to lose my natuaral teeth. So, I will do everything I can to save them. Wish I knew about periodontal disease earlier.
I received my Periogen starter kit about a week ago, but I was worried about any side effect if there is any. After some research I found that Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Sodium Bicarbonate and Citric Acid are harmless. Small percentage of Sodium Flouride is also harmless and we have them in tooth paste we use everyday also. But, I am little bit concerned about Tetrapotassium Pyrophosphate. My question for the administrator is what amount of this ingredient is present in Periogen? Is it indsutrial grade or food grade TKPP and what are the effects of it on gum and mouth tissues?
Another question about how to mix Periogen… the direction recommends one heaping spoonful in a cup of water. Can you please mention the amount of water in milliliter or ounce please? Because there are different sizes of cups.
I will post my experience as I keep applying Periogen.
Thank you Global Tonic!
You too are enjoying very fast results from Periogen use. Periogen contains about 24% TKPP, and it is, of course, food grade. TKPP is harmless to gingival tissue, and is a common cleanser found in toothpaste.
By one cup we mean 8 fluid ounces, or the first line on the Waterpik WP100 reservoir.
Does this stuff have any negative effect on porcelain veneers and composite fillings?
When it comes to enamel and dental work, Periogen is best thought of as a water softener. Periogen only affects ionically unstable deposits such as tartar and pre-hardened plaque.
I’ve been using Periogen about two weeks now, twice a day with the Water Pik. I don’t know how it’s working on the tartar, (I’d started just after having my teeth cleaned, and they felt pretty clean) but my teeth feel smooth instead of bumpy. My gums no longer hurt and bleed when I floss — I’ve NEVER not bled when I flossed before… it’s almost worth it for that alone!
I was upset when my dentist told me that I now had Periodontitis — making the root planings prescribed no longer covered under my medical insurance ($600 three or four times annually).
I live near someone who does Regenerative Periodontal Endoscopy (http://periopeak.com/), and plan to go there in a month or so to get a second opinion on the state of my teeth.
I’m sold enough to be buying another four bottles for my wife and myself.
John
Hi,
I just found out that I have receding gums and bone loss. Can you tell me the benefits to Periogen vs. Therasol? I’m trying to decide which to use in my irrigator as both seems to have great feedback.
Thanks,
Lisa
Hi Lisa,
Dr. Paul Keyes uses both, as they are complimentary products. Periogen dissolves tartar and keeps it off, and Therasol is a proven anti-microbialwith a great taste. Just add a little of both to your irrigator reservoir; we have tested this combo and endorse it.
Thanks for the response. I’m glad to hear that. I had actually been thinking of ordering both and using them on alternate days. But, using them together sounds very effective.
I’ve just finished my first bottle, doing twice daily cleanings along with regular brushing. Is there a typical pattern of remission that happens? I’m wondering if I should go back to my dentist now and get my pockets measured again. I don’t have much of a picture of what happens during this treatment. Should I be aiming to get pockets of 3mm or less overall? Is that realistic? Should I be expecting to be using Periogen for the long term to keep my pockets from recurring? Is there a maintenance pattern that people go to after successfully treating their gingivitis?
One bottle used and Periogen was applied twice a day is perhaps 3 weeks of use? I would wait a full three months for pocket reduction and clinical improvement to return to the dentist. At that point there will definitive proof of an outstanding improvement in your oral health that your dental professional could not deny. If memory serves, your diagnosis was for some immediate procedures to be performed. Return with some great results and your dentist will take you off the surgery list.
We just got the results from an independent study at the three month mark and all participants enjoyed profound improvement as reflected by their charting and X Rays. We also have before/after photos, both above and below the gum line, but your dentist certainly didn’t photograph your tartar, so your charting will be the convincing measure. I just have paper copies of the study charting at the moment, but hope to get the electronic versions this week, at which time I will post them on the site. This will give you and everyone else the data as to what to expect from Periogen.
All pockets that Periogen reaches will improve, not just the shallow ones. In fact, the biggest reductions will occur on the deepest pockets. Yes, your goal should be to get all pockets at or below 3mm, but since you are using a Waterpik, you can maintain excellent oral health with deeper pockets.
Your long term home care will be based on how often you need to use Periogen to keep tartar off. I am a big tartar builder and I use a small amount every day – I Waterpik with Periogen for perhaps 30 seconds each morning. I occasionally go primitive camping for a week at a time, and when I come back to civilization, I have visible tartar accumulated on the rear of my incisors. For me, it takes up to two weeks of my regular regimen to get those accumulations dissolved. I could probably use Periogen every other day and get the same results; I just don’t think I can remember to maintain an every-other-day regimen. Plus, when you use a Waterpik daily, you don’t have to floss, which I really enjoy.
I have yet to learn about Therasol. How comparable is Therasol to Peridex? I have used Peridex before.
Administrator,
Would rinsing with Periogen just as effective as using it with the Water Pik? In the beginning, I was using the oral irrigator. But lately, I’ve just been rinsing. Will the results be time same?
Hello Admin,
Hi, Thank you for replies, I’m learning a lot about the product. I tend to accumulate so much tartar on the backs on my front teeth. Would it be effective there as well? Also is it safe around bridge and crown work?
thanks in advance
That is the most common area to accumulate tartar. Periogen will remove that tartar too, how fast depends on how long the tartar has been there and how quickly it re-accumulates. Periogen is harmless on bridgework and crowns.
Rinsing only gets about 1mm below the gun line, brushing maybe 2mm. If you have pockets deeper than that, your should use a waterpik.
Admin,
I bought 3 bottles and the deep applicator but I am unsure exactly how to use it. Do i put the tip between my tooth and gumline where the gums are beginning to pull off my teeth?
Due to ‘circumstances’, involving no cleaning for 5 years, last weeks Perio-Exam eluded to 4-6m.m. and 1-9m.m. pockets.
I immediatly started researching the situation, varied treatments, and chose Periogen.
I also ‘acquired’ 50 main Dental&Hygenist training and Orthodontic ’serious’ manuals.
2 independant dentists have told me surgery is my only option.
MY dentist says I stand good chances JUST with the Perio-cleaning.
Plan is :
I have 2 weeks before the Perio-cleaning, I am brushing with Neem/Tea Tree toohpastes each day, following the Periogen instructions, and having the wife ‘ go-at ‘ the 9m.m. pocket with an independant syringe aside from my WaterPick.
I anticipate slight improovement prior to my cleaning, and will continue the Periogen for 4 months.
Then have the dentist do a RE-check-up.
There is no bleeding and very little infection.
I have an odd-level of confidance this is going to work well!!
Hi Chris,
What “circumstances” are you talking about for 5 years? Were you a hostage of a foreign country? I am sure we would all love to know!!!
Your anticipations are realistic. Periogen can do little with 5 year-old calculus in just two weeks – but it will be very effective in cleaning up what is missed after your upcoming deep cleaning. Since virtually no dental office is equipped with a periodontal endoscope, hygienist’s can’t see what they are scrapping in periodontal pockets, which has been documented to leave tartar here and there. Periogen will clean those remaining areas to provide for a complete recovery. Good luck and keep us posted!
Patrick,
Use the deep pocket appicator where pockets exceed 4mm. Use a Waterpik in all other areas.
Thanks for asking.
I always make an effort to be brief.
I work as a PersonalAssistant here, all Clients are quite wealthy, and I’m ‘ On Station ‘ 24/7/365 ( literally ).
It’s hard to be in the mode of 100% ( literate ) dental-care where diet/tooth-brushing goes, modern-living and all, you know.
THAT has changed, right down to the diet.
My wife is finishing school as a Nurse Practitioner, I work for among other Clients, a neurosurgeon and an Opthamologist,
so between my wife, and employers, we are becoming too-aware of avoiding ‘ party-line’ health-care. Problem is, patients are supposed to be involved in their OWN health-care , THAT hits the wall as soon as you disagree with your doctor.
I love my dentist. ALL personnel in his office want my wisdom teeth out. It’s their primary ‘ position ‘. I’m aware of the base-reasons.
So, they will do my cleaning, I’ve read THEIR training books, and 4 months after the Perio-cleaning at the dentist office, with Periogen use at home, I will go to an second dentist for evaluation of treatment success, then MY dentist.
I am deliberatly not telling them about my plan.
THEY will do their thing, and I will ‘back-up’ with mine.
I’ve been too-busy in the last decade with many things, I will change that now. The books I’ve read have provided MUCH enlightenment on all-things-oral.
Thanks for being here !
re: rinsing versus waterpik no comparison. i see tremendously better results with waterpik and i compared over a week.
What exactly is meant by the term “pockets”. I have the deep applicator tool but I feel like im using it incorrectly, I stir in periogen to warm water, I suck it up into the applicator and put it near my gumline on my bottom front teeth and release the solution but it doesnt seem to be any different than if i were to simply swish the solution around. I am confused.
Patrick **
I’m no expert, but according to all the reading I’ve done, Our deep-pocket applicators are the only option to reach *any* format of attached *debris* below the gum-line at 6m.m. or BELOW..
A waterpick *tends* to limit-out at 4m.m.
Meaning, you need an extended tip ( waterpick ), or what I use, is the deep-pocket applicator ( actually my wife does it for me ), to get kind-of *into* the deeper pockets, as the gums block direct-flow.
HOPE that helps a little.
I have 6m.m.’s and 1-9m.m.
Most dental specs are :
1-2m.m. > Mouth-rinsing WaterPick manual-applicator, WaterPick rubber extended tip
Deal is, you need to remove the normal BioFilm PRIOR to the Periogen application.
Deeper pockets are impossible to do that 1st, so extended tips are required.
I have had 3 Dentists tell me gum-surgery is my ONLY option with a 9m.m. pocket.
I plan on my usual 105% success with my Periogen situation !!
Post EDIT
Most dental specs are :
1-2m.m. Mouth Rinsing
2-4m.m. WaterPick
6m.m. ++ Manual Tip reaching below gums
Hi Chris,
You are correct about most oral irrigators; except the WaterPik Ultra WP100 delivers Periogen to 6mm and even 7mm when used with their PikPocket tip. We documented 7mm, beyond their 6mm claims, in an internal study which showed tartar dissolution at 7mm in some 10mm to 12mm pockets.
Waterpik has a really great system in that the PikPocket tip doesn’t have to be inserted into periodontal pockets to be effective – just keeping the soft tip at the top of the pocket will pump tartar-dissolving Periogen deep into diseased pockets which breaks up bio-films and tartar.
The deep pocket applicator, per the instructions on the Periogen bottle, is designed for periodontal pockets greater than 6mm. If you just have shallow pockets, you should use a Waterpik Ultra to deliver Periogen. If you have no pockets, just swish with Periogen to keep tartar at bay.
Great reminder, Thanks !
I recently Goggled “dissolve plaque” as
I know I have plaque under the gum line
causing pus discharge. I found your information.
I plan to give your system a whirl.
I really hope it works as like others on this blog,
I have thought to myself, there has GOT TO BE a better
way to get at this stuff!
I will let y’all know!
Namaste’
Scot
I’m sure you’ll be pleased! I’ve been a faithful Periogen user since 2007 and have experienced major improvement in my fight against periodontal disease. After using Periogen for the first time, my mouth felt amazingly clean and fresh, and by the next morning, most of my gum pain, bleeding, and inflammation had diminished! Within a few days, my gums were completely healed and by my next dental visit, my dentist noticed that my gums were the healthiest they had ever been. There was even an improvement in my pocket depths by several millimeters. My past several visits to the periodontist have been just as pleasant and I now use Periogen on a weekly basis for maintenance. Periogen’s been so effective that I started thinking of my periodontal disease as a thing of the past & forgot to take Periogen with me on vacation, and experienced a flare up for the first time in years. But as soon as I got home, I went back to my Periogen regimen and—no surprise—my gums have begun to heal once again! I love this stuff and just ordered my next shipment!
My first order arrived and I have a question about the instructions regarding the Water Pik Ultra. I have been using a Water Pik ultra for two years now, but I am not sure what “half power” means. Does this refer to the strength of the pulsating water? I have been using it on the lowest setting, anything more causes my gums to swell. My hygienist has advised against using a higher setting.
Despite using the Water Pik, I still have few 5mm and (2) 6mm pockets. My hygienist is now talking about a referral to a periodontist. I was happy to find your blog and website.
One other question: can one drink anything after irrigating with Periogen? I am hoping to irrigate before bed and in the a.m. before leaving for work.
Thanks,
Susan
Has anyone gone through Judy’s RPE procedure? If so, how successful is the procedure? Good results?
I have been though the rpm procedure and had 12mm pockets reduced to 2 mm. It is truely amazing.
You are a great Periogen candidate, as you are aquainted with the waterpik. Proceed with the morning and evening use and you will enjoy results shortly. After your periodontal condition dimimishes, you may use Periogen once a day or a few times a week to keep tartar at bay.
Regarding the ‘half power’ recommendation on the directions that came with the Periogen, does this refer to the strength of the Water Pik water stream? Does it mean to set the dial at the mid way point? As I mentioned earlier, I usually use it on the gentler setting. Will this allow the periogen to get deep into the pocket? Will that affect results?
Thanks,
Susan
Hi Susan,
Yes, we recommend the half power setting on the Waterpik Ultra to get the water pulses to the bottom of 6-7 mm pockets.
If you are just getting started, and that setting is painful, start with the minimum setting and work you way up to half power over a span of a few days or a few weeks. The pain will diminish over this brief period of time; meaning any gingivitis will have been eliminated with the repetitive application of Periogen, which will disrupt harmful bacteria colonies and allow your gingiva (gums around your teeth) to heal naturally.